Updated 16 October 2026.
We already have come across Aleksas Gabecas (often shortened to Gabas) in several guises, as one of the first 12 Displaced Persons sent to Rosebery in Tasmania to cut paths through the bush for geologists, as a Rover Scout, as a writer reporting on the trip to Australia and the first few weeks here, as an artist who illustrated that report with his own cartoons and as crew for Jonas Lipsius’ shark-fishing venture off the Victorian coast.
When we look further, we can see that a man of many more talents who lived a long and doubtless interesting life.
Aleksas, as he was first known in Australia, was from the northern Lithuanian city of Šiauliai. He had been born there on 21 September 1922, to Danielius Gabecas and the former Juzė (Juozapa) Urbietytė. They had another son, Viktoras, on 11 May 1926.
Aleksas’ willingness to crew for Jonas Lipsius might be explained by the establishment of a sailing club in Šiauliai by the Lithuanian aviation pilot Stasys Bulota (1913–1982). The club had about 40 sailors, including 19-year-old Aleksas and younger brother Viktoras. On 11 February 1944, by Resolution No. 204 of the Lithuanian Sailing Union, Aleksas was recognized as a third-rank yacht captain with the right to lead a yacht in local water races.
Aleksas wrote in his memoirs (not available to the public at this time) that from 1942, together with O Truchanas and other Šiauliai sailors, he often sailed on the Lake Rėkyva and participated in regattas.
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| Olympic-class dinghies on Lake Rėkyva, 1943, ready for a regatta |
Would that O Truchanas be Olegas Truchanas, born in Šiauliai one year after Aleksas, and later famed in Australia as a nature photographer and conservationist? Returning to the records of the Šiauliai sailing club (Interwar Siauliai Sports History Pages, in the Sources below), yes, the Olegas who sailed with Aleksas was born in 1923 and died in 1972, so he would be the Olegas who found fame in Australia.
Aleksas’ youth in Šiauliai also involved boxing. Representing the Šarūnas Sports Club, he became the champion in the middleweight category at the Lithuanian Boxing Championships in 1942 and 1943.
In his memoirs, boxer and trainer Vaclovas Peleckis wrote, “In 1940, A. Gabecas started attending boxing training. He was a talented young man. At first, it seemed that nothing good would come of him, because he trained superficially and was afraid of the ring. However, after half a year of training, the guy showed his character: he won all his friendly matches with a clear advantage. He was a technical boxer, very cunning in the ring. His friends nicknamed him the ring leaf.”
The report of his interview for selection for resettlement in Australia notes that he “fled from Russian regime”. At least he was not one of the many forcibly relocated by the Germans.
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| Aleksas Gabecas' photo from the file about his selection to resettle in Australia: the sailor's outfit looks like it might have been surplus to the US or British Navy, since both the Lithuanian Navy and the Lithuanian Sea Scouts had white tops Source: National Archives of Australia |
The report noted that he had 4 years of elementary schooling and 8 years at secondary level. He had been employed as an “Electro Tech” in Lithuania for one year, giving us some idea of the specialisation in his later secondary schooling.
At the time of his interview, he was living in the Emigration Transit Camp, Hannover-Buchholz. He may have been cleared already by the American authorities for resettlement outside Germany.
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| Diepholz, October 1947, waiting to leave for Australia: Ann asked ChatGPT for a "very, very gentle clean-up" of this photograph from Aleksas' collection as reproduced in a thumbnail in 1996 issue of Mūsų Pastogė — how well the AI has done the job is best assessed by anyone who know the individuals in it, of whom Aleksas could remember Povilas Baltutis, Petras Baltutis, Vytas Narbutas, Zenonas Janonis, Romas Krausas, himself and Vilius Janonis standing (7/8) but only Albertas Ūsas from the middle of the front row Source: Mūsų Pastogė |
We know from Jonas Motiejunas’ account of how the Lithuanian Scouts in Australia were started on the voyage and during first days in Bonegilla that Senior Sea Scout Patrol Leader Aleksandras Gabecas was one of the founders. Motiejūnas reported that Aleksas was one of the leaders of a Baltic scouting campfire on board the Heintzelman on 22 November 1947.
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| Again from Aleksas' collection and "very, very gently" enhanced by ChatGPT, this photo shows a group of Lithuanian Sea Scouts gathered on a huge anchor on board the First Transport: 50 years later, Aleksas remembered J Songaila on the left of the middle row, F Sirius on the right of the middle row, himself in the Sea Scout uniform, N Skidzevičius to his left and A Jurevičius to his right Source: Mūsų Pastogė |
We already have some idea of Bonegilla camp life for the Lithuanians in the reports by Endrius Jankus, while Jonas Mockūnas has told us about life for the 12 Baltic men, including Aleksas, chosen to work with the Electrolytic Zinc company, nominally at Rosebery in the northwest of Tasmania. A report written at the time by Aleksas for a scouting publication has been translated for this blog. Aleksas wrote more for the 50th anniversary of the First Transport group’s arrival in Australia.
For the Mūsų Pastogė issue of 2 December 1996, he wrote, “After a 28-day journey on the ship General Heinzelman (30.10.1947–28.11.1947) and several days in Western Australia, on 7 December 1947 (actually 9 December) we were taken to the Bonegilla migration camp in the state of Victoria, where we lived until the beginning of 1948.
“During Christmas and the New Year in 1947–1948, it was, at least for us, quite hot —everywhere was full of dust, as a stormy, hot wind blew. Several of us celebrated Christmas Eve and Christmas in the former military camp refrigerator room, the walls of which were covered with a thin layer of ice and frost... Having received a bottle of wine and tropical fruits — bananas, oranges — we spent our first holidays singing and singing in Lithuanian.
“While living in Bonegilla, after the holidays they began to divide us into jobs. We were distributed throughout the continent — wherever there was a shortage of ordinary labourers. We, seven Lithuanians and five Latvians, applied in advance for work somewhere further south — to Tasmania, King, Flinders or even Macquarie Islands.
“The application helped and on 17 January 17 1948, a dozen of us ended up in western Tasmania. Before that, while waiting for transport, we stayed in the Melbourne YMCA for a week, because the dock workers and sailors were on strike. We were flown to Tasmania by plane by the Electrolytic Zinc Company, for whom we would have to work.
“Then we went to our first workplace in the forests by what we called the Automatica, a rail motor operated by the local, private Emu Bay Railway. It was about 40 km from the mining town of Rosebery. At that time, the Railway was the only means of communication there with other areas.
“At the foot of the mountain, right next to the railway, there was an unloading platform and several tin houses. We immediately named this place Baltic Bushmen City and nailed a board with this inscription to the poles near the platform. Many people passing by on this small train would take pictures of the board and wonder where and how this Baltic Bushmen City came to be”.
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| This is ChatGPT's cleaner version of the Baltic Bushmen City photograph you have seen already in Jonas Mockūnas' entry on the men sent to Tasmania's West Coast, but only 11 of the 12 are here (one looking remarkably Asian) as perhaps the photograph was taken by the twelfth: a reminder — you can see a larger version of any image in this blog in a new Web page by clicking once on it Source: Mūsų Pastogė |
Ramunas Tarvydas, in From Amber Coast to Apple Isle, described Aleksas in terms which correspond with what we can see from other reports. He wrote, "Whether in the bush or in Rosebery, Alex Gabas provided much of the entertainment. He was an accomplished artist, musician and all-round entertainer. He played tunes on a row of beer bottles filled with graduated amounts of water so as to produce notes when struck with a metal object. On his guitar he accompanied himself and others; he used to walk 15 km to Tullah to play in a local band.
"He performed magician's tricks, such as breathing fire, swallowing razor blades, walking and lying on glass; he also staged exhibition boxing matches. One story has it that he walked the length of a viaduct on the Emu Bay Railway — on his hands! In camp, he tried to stop the drinking by putting recalcitrants against a tree and throwing a knife at a spot just above their heads."
Ramunas recorded that Aleksas stayed at Rosebery or the Baltic Bushmen City for one year only. He noted Gabecas’ next employer as the PMG Hobart.
PMG needs no explanation for older Australians but for anyone else, the initials stood for Postmaster General’s Department. The Department was responsible not only for Australia’s postal system but also for telecommunications. Its physical activities were devolved into Australia Post and Telecom Australia, later Telstra, on 1 July 1975 (1 July being the start of Australia’s financial year). Aleksas’ previous training and experience as “Electro Tech” must have been recognised.
In Hobart in July 1949, the Launceston Examiner newspaper found Aleksas demonstrating yet another sporting interest. Along with another Heintzelman arrival, Albertas Medisauskas, he was demonstrating fencing moves to a group which was interested in forming a fencing club.
Genovaitė Kazokas fills in more of Aleksas' life for us, in her PhD thesis turned into a book on Lithuanian Artists in Australia, 1950-1990.
He had completed Šiauliai High School studies in 1941. His favourite subjects there had been sport, music and art. His art teacher was a theatre set painter, and Aleksas had studied at the Šiauliai Theatre Studio while still in high school. He had commenced engineering studies at the University of Vytautas the Great in Kaunas.
Before moving to the Emigration Transit Camp, Hannover-Buchholz, he had been in a DP camp in Seedorf, where "he was active as a theatre decorator, actor and musician". During the voyage to Australia, Aleksas had been a member of a music group organised by Petras Morkūnas. Our entry on Bronius Bukevičius says that it was a 40-man choir, organised with Bronius' help and that of Kazys Mieldažys.
Olegas Truchanas had helped Aleksas start the fencing club in Hobart. Aleksas then moved to Melbourne in 1950, "where he studied fine arts at Melbourne University and painting at the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology".
In varying theatrical sets to suit particular plays, he painted a backdrop of the Baltic Sea for Jūratė and Kastytis performed in 1951 by the Dana Nasvytis Dance School, enhanced by his lighting effects.
"In 1953, he made the sets for Hans Christian Andersen's fairytale Kelionės draugas (Comrade on the Journey) ..."
Also in 1953, we come across Aleksas crewing for Jonas Lipsius’ boat when Melbourne Lithuanians visited them in San Remo, across a bridge from Phillip Island and its penguin parade. That was on 1 February.
Aleksas married Stase Marcinkus in 1954 and acquired a ready-made family. Stase was 4 years older than Aleksas, having been born in December 1917, and had been married twice already. Presumably her first husband, with the surname Dimindavicius, had been killed during World War II. He was the father of Danute, born in March 1935, and Algimantas, born in March 1936. Knowing that she was a widow, Stase then would have been able to marry Zigmantas Marcinkus and bear his child, Eugenija, in August 1946.
One year later, on 30 November 1955, Alexander Mykolas Gabecas became an Australian citizen. He was living then at 314 Albert Road, South Melbourne, about 400 metres from the high school Ann attended during 1962-65. If and when the National Archives of Australia allows the public to look at the file containing his application for naturalisation, we will be able to see more information about his movements and work during his first 8 years in Australia.
Lithuanians often shorten their surnames to make life easier. In this case, Aleksas became Alexander Mykolas Gabas when he enrolled to vote, as is compulsory for Australian citizens. Finding him on electoral rolls digitised by Ancestry allows us his stated occupation and home address or addresses.
The earliest available electoral roll with Alexander in it is a 1963 roll for the suburb of Reservoir, north of central Melbourne. He gave his occupation then as Technician. He was at the same address in 1968, but Stase had joined him as a voter.
By 1972, they had moved south to the suburb of Beaumaris, on Melbourne's Port Phillip Bay. Eugenia (sic), having adopted the Gabas family name, had joined them on the roll. The last available roll is for 1977, when they had moved again, to another coastal suburb about 5 km north, Sandringham. Eugenia presumably had left home, because she was not on this roll. Alexander’s occupation was still Technician.
During this time, according to Genovaitė Kazokas, he continued with the design and manufacture of theatre sets. She notes the comedy Teta iš Amerikas (The Aunt from America) by J. Audronis, first performed in Melbourne in 1957 and repeated in 1977, 1978, 1983 and 1984.
Aleksas prepared the stage for Amerika pirtyje (America in a Bathhouse) in 1986. In the next year, he prepared stage and costumes for the drama Eglės namai (The House of Eglė) by Gražina Markeckaitė.
Aleksas' Amerika pirtyje (America in a Bathhouse) set
From the 1960s, when he was in his 40s, music seemed to take the place in his life previous occupied by sport. In 1966, Mūsų Pastogė reported on an original performance with skudučiai and other folk instruments.
“The performances featuring skudučiai (individual pipes, each with its own pitch) … were truly original, representing a revival of our folk instrument music. Aleksandras Gabas — a Sea Scout recently elevated to the rank of Scoutmaster and a highly talented organizer of various performances — is reviving skudučiai music in Australia.
“He prepared a skudučiai orchestra that played the Sparrow March (Žvirblių maršas) and, with his large comedic orchestra (20 members), performed Buvo gera gaspadinė (There Was a Good Housewife) and Du broliukai kunigai (Two brother priests). The audience could not stop applauding.”
That mention of promotion to Scoutmaster provides an opportunity to mention that Aleksas was singled out during the 50th anniversary of arrival, along with First Transporters Algirdas Liubinskas and Jonas Urbonas, as those who helped Borisas Dainutis start and organise Lithuanian scouting in Australia.
Back to music. The photograph below appeared on the front page of Mūsų Pastogė issue of 20 June 1988. Kanklės is the Lithuanian version of the zither, a family of wooden stringed instruments, mostly without a neck to stretch the strings, which are plucked by the fingers or a plectrum. The Latvian version is the kokle while Estonia has the kannel and Finland the kantele. The zither is not confined to the Baltic, however, as variations are wide spread across Europe and Asia.
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| Aleksas Gabas is the man in the front right of this 1988 photograph of a group of Melbourne kanklės players which had just given its debut performance Source: Mūsų Pastogė |
An earlier photograph in the Lithuanian Central State Archives, taken in 1980, shows 4 of the 6 above in their earlier ensemble, called Kankles.
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| Aleksas is on the right of this photograph of the Kankles ensemble in 1980: second from left is Stasys Eimutis, who made their instruments Source: E-kinas |
A larger group, based on the same players was photographed in 1998.
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| The Kankles ensemble in 1998 with two singers as well as instrumentalists; Stasys Eimutis is on the far left, front row, while Aleksas is third from right, back row Source: E-kinas |
Mūsų Pastogė started to prepare for the 50th anniversary of the First Transport’s arrival one year earlier, publishing photographs and articles sent to it by Aleksas Gabecas-Gabas. We have used some of those already both here and elsewhere to describe life for Aleksas and the other EZ Rosebery employees in the late 1940s and early 1950s.
Given that Aleksas was already in his 70s by the time of the 50th anniversary, 28 November 1997, his public life became quiet. He lived a truly long life, dying on 7 August 2013, when he was 90 years old, some weeks short of his 91st birthday. His remains were cremated in the Springvale Botanical Cemetery and the ashes returned to the family. This may be a case of the ashes then being scattered, in Australia or Lithuania.
The variety in his life seems to parallel the many names available to him. While his baptismal names were Aleksandras Mykolas, he was known normally as Aleksas. In Australia, he registered himself on the electoral role as Alexander Mykolas, and was known to have been called by the Alex short form. Also for the electoral roll, Gabecas became Gabas and he was often known by the Australian Lithuanians as Gabecas-Gabas or plain Gabas.
Doubtless it was his basic interest in the work he was trained to do plus his many outside interests that contributed to that long life.
SOURCES
‘American Expeditionary Forces (AEF) DP Registration Record, Gabecas Viktoras’ 3.1.1.1 Postwar Card File / Postwar Card File (A-Z) / Names in "phonetical" order from G, DocID 67107990, ITS/Arolsen Archives https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/en/search/person/67107990?s=Gabecas&t=2737422&p=0, accessed 22 September 2026.
Births, Deaths and Marriages Victoria [Search] https://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/search-your-family-history, accessed 21 September 2026.
Bosikis, Vladas (1953) ‘Svečiuose Pas Rykliu Gaudytoju’ (‘Visiting the Shark Hunters’, in Lithuanian) Mūsų Pastogė (Our Haven) Sydney, NSW, 26 February, p 2 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article259362949, accessed 21 September 2026.
Commonwealth of Australia Gazette (1956) ‘Certificates of Naturalization’, Canberra, ACT, 10 May, p 1298 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article232877900/25099643, accessed 19 September 2026.
E-kinas ‘P-40826’ https://www.e-kinas.lt/ekinas-photos/photo/344748, accessed 21 September 2026.
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Elektroninis Archyvų Informacinė Sistema (Electronic Archives Information System), 'Joniškio dekanato bažnyčių gimimo metrikų knyga' ('Register of Births for the Churches of the Joniškis Deanery') in Lithuanian [1922, p 79, item 10]) https://eais.archyvai.lt/repo-ext-api/share/?manifest=https://eais.archyvai.lt/repo-ext-api/view/267630365/297161648/lt/iiif/manifest&lang=lt&page=79, accessed 22 September 2026.
Europeana ‘A. Gabecas ir J. Lipčius Australijos vandenyse’ (‘A. Gabecas and J. Lipčius in Australian waters’, in Lithuanian) https://www.europeana.eu/da/item/2021802/LIMIS_100000012810337, accessed 19 September 2026.
Examiner (1949), ‘Fencers’, Launceston, Tas 26 July, p 4 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/52688092, accessed 21 September 2026.
Gabecas, Aleksandras (1948) '4. "Pažadėtoj Žemėj" Australijoj' ('4. In the "Promised Land", Australia', in Lithuanian) Skautu Aidas (Scouting Echo), Augustdorf bei Detmold, Germany, 15 June, pp 30-31 https://www.spauda2.org/skautu_aidas/archive/1948/1948-Nr05-06-SKAUTU-AIDAS.pdf, accessed 24 July 2026.
Kazokas, Genovaitė (2003) Lithuanian Artists in Australia, 1950-1990, Melbourne, Europe-Australia Institute, pp 204-5.
Mūsų Pastogė (Our Haven) (1966) ‘Jaunimo Vakaras, Pavykęs Talentų Koncertas’ (‘Youth Evening, Successful Talent Concert in Melbourne’, in Lithuanian) Sydney, NSW, 18 July, p 5 https://www.spauda2.org/musu_pastoge/archive/1966/1966-07-18-MUSU-PASTOGE.pdf accessed 19 September 2026.
Mūsų Pastogė (Our Haven) (1988) Untitled, Sydney, NSW, 20 June, p 1, https://www.spauda2.org/musu_pastoge/archive/1988/1988-06-20-MUSU-PASTOGE.pdf, accessed 21 September 2026.
Mūsų Pastogė (Our Haven) (1996) ‘Nuotraukose: I - sis transportas’ (‘In photos: The First Transport’, in Lithuanian) Sydney, NSW, 25 November, p 8, https://spauda2.org/musu_pastoge/archive/1996/1996-11-25-MUSU-PASTOGE.pdf, accessed 21 September 2026.
Mūsų Pastogė (Our Haven) (1996) ‘Nuotraukose: pirmasis transportas (II) (Aleksandro Gabo nuotraukos ir paaiškinimai)’ (‘In photos: The First Transport (II) (photos and captions by Aleksandras Gabas), in Lithuanian) Sydney, NSW, 2 December, p 6, https://www.spauda2.org/musu_pastoge/archive/1996/1996-12-02-MUSU-PASTOGE.pdf, accessed 21 September 2026.
Mūsų Pastogė (Our Haven) (1997) ‘Nuotraukose: Pirmasis transportas (III) (Aleksandro Gabo nuotraukos ir paaiškinimai)’ ‘In photos: The First Transport (III) (photos and captions by Aleksandras Gabas), in Lithuanian) Sydney, NSW, 20 January, p 8 https://www.spauda2.org/musu_pastoge/archive/1997/1997-01-20-MUSU-PASTOGE.pdf, accessed 21 September 2026.
Mūsų Pastogė [Our Haven] (1997) ’Nuotraukose: pirmasis transportas (IV)’ ['The First Transport: in photographs (IV)’, in Lithuanian] Sydney, NSW, 12 May, p 6 https://spauda2.org/musu_pastoge/archive/1997/1997-05-12-MUSU-PASTOGE.pdf accessed 5 May 2025.
Mūsų Pastogė [Our Haven] (1997) ’Nuotraukose: pirmasis transportas (V)’ ['The First Transport: in photographs (V)’, in Lithuanian] Sydney, NSW, 19 May, p 6 https://spauda2.org/musu_pastoge/archive/1997/1997-05-19-MUSU-PASTOGE.pdf accessed 5 May 2025.
Mūsų Pastogė [Our Haven] (1997) ’Nuotraukose: pirmasis transportas (VI)’ ['The First Transport: in photographs (VI)’, in Lithuanian] Sydney, NSW, 23 June, p 6 https://spauda2.org/musu_pastoge/archive/1997/1997-06-23-MUSU-PASTOGE.pdf accessed 5 May 2025.
National Archives of Australia, Department of Immigration, Central Office; A11772, Migrant Selection Documents for Displaced Persons who travelled to Australia per General Stuart Heintzelman departing Bremerhaven 30 October 1947, 1947-1947; 840, GABECAS Aleksandras DOB 21 September 1922, 1947-1947 recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=5005956, accessed 21 September 2026.
National Archives of Australia, Migrant Reception and Training Centre, Bonegilla [Victoria]; A2571, Name Index Cards, Migrants Registration [Bonegilla], 1947-1956; DIMINDAVICIUS MARCINKUS ALGIMANTAS, DIMINDAVICIUS (MARCINKUS), Algimantas : Year of Birth - 1936 : Nationality - LITHUANIAN : Travelled per - DUNDALK BAY : Number - [UNKNOWN], 1949-1949 https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=203618267, accessed 21 September 2026.
National Archives of Australia, Migrant Reception and Training Centre, Bonegilla [Victoria]; A2571, Name Index Cards, Migrants Registration [Bonegilla], 1947-1956; DIMINDAVICIUS MARCINKUS DANUTE, DIMINDAVICIUS (MARCINKUS), Danute : Year of Birth - 1935 : Nationality - LITHUANIAN : Travelled per - DUNDALK BAY : Number - [UNKNOWN], 1949-1949 https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=203618266 accessed 21 September 2026.
National Archives of Australia, Migrant Reception and Training Centre, Bonegilla [Victoria]; A2571, Name Index Cards, Migrants Registration [Bonegilla], 1947-1956; MARCINKUS EUGENIJA, MARCINKUS, Eugenija : Year of Birth - 1946 : Nationality - LITHUANIAN : Travelled per - DUNDALK BAY : Number - [UNKNOWN], 1949-1949 https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=203618265, accessed 21 September 2026.
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National Archives of Australia, Migrant Reception and Training Centre, Bonegilla [Victoria]; A2571, Name Index Cards, Migrants Registration [Bonegilla], 1947-1956; MARCINKUS ZIGMANTAS, MARCINKUS, Zigmantas : Year of Birth - 1913 : Nationality - LITHUANIAN : Travelled per - DUNDALK BAY : Number – 117027, 1949-1949 recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=203618263, accessed 21 September 2026.
Nearrašius, Jonas (2021) ‘Tarpukario Šiaulių sporto istorijos puslapiai’ (‘Interwar Siauliai Sports History Pages’, in Lithuanian) https://www.snaujienos.lt/kultura-ir-pramogos/44082-tarpukario-siauliu-sporto-istorijos-puslapiai-9, accessed 22 September 2026.
Southern Metropolitan Cemeteries Trust ‘Alexander Gabas’ https://www.smct.org.au/deceased-search/detail?id=c9f25d0a-4e9a-ef11-8a69-00224811c475, accessed 21 September 2026.
Tarvydas, Ramunas, (1997) From Amber Coast to Apple Isle: Fifty Years of Baltic Immigrants in Tasmania 1948-1998, Baltic Semicentennial Commemoration Activities Organising Committee, Hobart, Tasmania, pp 44, 163.
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Žalys, Bronius (1996) ‘Pėdsekys, LSS Australijos rajono 50-mečiui artėjant‘ (‘Pathfinder, As the 50th Anniversary of the [Lithuanian Scouts] Australian District Approaches’, in Lithuanian) Mūsų Pastogė (Our Haven) Sydney, NSW, 25 November, p 4 https://www.spauda2.org/musu_pastoge/archive/1996/1996-11-25-MUSU-PASTOGE.pdf, accessed 19 September 2026.
